'We Indians are so timid that we will not
stand up for what we know to be right'

What are the most striking changes witnessed by you in the past five decades?

The most striking changes have been the degradation of the people and lowering of the Indian character.

I have never seen the country's character lower than what it is today. I have said this publicly, and I am one of the few people who say it publicly.

I have said this country is bound to destroy itself. Not because the people are not intelligent, they have far greater intelligence than almost any other nation. But there is no wisdom, there is no leadership. And the people who have the capacity to think for themselves, they are nowhere in the picture.

I told you about Hari Nanda, I told you the man forfeited his deposit, what greater insult to a man who wants to enter public office? But he never stood for Parliament again for he knew he never stood a chance. The situation is no better today.

How do you assess the present government? Do you think this coalition will survive?

I do not think it will survive long.

How long do you give this government? Are coalition governments the country's future?

No, I cannot gauge the time. I only know people will throw out this government when somebody else comes in the picture.

Coalitions may become a necessity. As they have become a necessity in Italy.

In Italy and other places of the world democracy survives only because of coalition governments. But I think I would not be surprised if a government which depends on coalitions like the present government finds it difficult to survive. I am not making any predictions because I have known people who have done so and proved wrong. So much depends on higher forces I believe in them completely.

You cannot read the future because it is in the hands of the Gods. You can take a dim view or a brighter view, I may turn out to be wrong. In fact, I would be completely satisfied and the happiest man on earth if I turn out to be wrong.But I would be dishonest and less than frank with you and your readers if I were to say that I take a bright view of the future.

Compared to Dr Manmohan Singh how do you rate Mr P Chidambaram's economic policy?

Dr Manmohan Singh's policies were totally right. But he was contesting and contending with 45 years of thoroughly useless government. I have been saying this for years, I have written it in We the People and We the Nation. In these books I have tried to say that you have been following the wrong economic policy in all these 45 years. Yet the people have followed this policy and welcomed it, they had enough intelligence but they did not stand up for what they believed was right.

If there's one thing I've learnt is this that I blame the businessmen more than anybody else because they had enough knowledge and information at their command to see that they do the right thing for the country. Like I've said in one of my books, they knew what was right but they did what was wrong. That was said of General Smuts of South Africa. And I'm sorry to say if this could be said for any nation as a nation it is India.You think Indians did not have the intelligence to know that for 45 years they were following a suicidal policy?

There are intelligent Indians settled abroad but I wish they would return and try to do something for their country instead of having a comfortable life themselves. What I'm telling you now is what I've been saying for 35 years. In fact half my life I've been saying what I'm telling you now. I have been telling (the people) -- won't you wake up or will you go on sleeping like this?

I myself paid for it. In other words I never held any public office only because of my views. If I had held other views I would have had great public office and great opportunities but I did not.

How about the present government's economic policies?

They are the right policies because they are the continuation of Dr Manmohan Singh's policies which deserve to be continued.

What do you think is lacking in the reform process?

It is not dynamic enough. It should be much much more dynamic.

What do you mean when you say dynamic?

For example take insurance. Dr Manmohan Singh said three years ago that he would like insurance not to be nationalised, but denationalised. Second year he repeated it. Third year again he repeated it. He appointed a man like Dr R N Malhotra. A very fine man, a first class man, to head the committee which was asked to go into the question of the denationalisation of the insurance business. Dr Malhotra made a report but nothing happened.

He did not go in the direction which he had himself indicated. And this government does not do it either. You think Chidambaram does not know what is good for the country? But the point is that if there is anyone characteristic which actuates India it is timidity.

We Indians by nature are so timid that we will not stand up for what we know to be right. And I sum up Indian character by saying if we had less of timidity and more of the public spirit we could change this country.

On the road of economic reforms where do you see India five years from now?

If it goes on like today I don't see it doing anything in five years time. Other countries have developed in five-ten years but not India.Five years is a long period of time. My surprise is that Indians don't come up and try to find a solution for their own country. Why are we so submissive? Why are we submitting to any nonsense which the government imposes upon us?

I sometimes wish we had more of public spirit and less of this ma baap business. This ma baap business is the one curse of India. The government is ma baap. It is your own government, you have elected it.

The change is not fast enough. Look at the five years of Manmohan Singh. He was on the right track and in five years he could do a substantial amount but not as much as what was really necessary. Why? Because we have had decades, literally decades of what I would call the lost decades. The lost decades mean the country has lost time. And the point is you are not expected to speak the truth. What I am saying to you now is not something others do not think. They do. But they will not say publicly what they believe in privately.

As far as the economic reforms is concerned, some people are of the opinion that financially we could end up like Mexico. Do you think India is confronted by such a threat?

It can happen. I would not put it beyond the bounds of possibility. I think it is an alarming situation. And it is not as if I am the only one in India who is thinking that way. There are thousands of others, countless people who think that way. I wish people would speak up.

What can be done to avert such a situation?

It is a very long process. You have to educate the people. If you educate the Indians in their own culture it is enough.You don't have to go to other countries because you have all the ethics, all the knowledge and all the intellectual acumen that you need to be a great country.

The only solution is to have a strong man rule this country. Somebody like Mahatma Gandhi who knows what this country stands for and who tried to do in his own life what was good for the nation.

In the entire gamut of Indian politics is there a leader who is capable of bringing about this change?

I think this country is far too large to be governed well and by one strong leader. There are regional influences that come into play. I think that's why maybe God himself wills that this country should become fragmented and become different countries. It is possible because I don't see any one man ruling this vast country. Our culture is one but most people do not realise it.