Part I: 'Vajpayee is playing with fire'

In the second part of his interview, Syed Shahabuddin, convener of the Babri Masjid Movement Coordination Committee, tells Ramesh Menon that the Ram mandir issue will no longer translate into votes for the BJP:

You are saying that Muslims are ready to accept a court judgement?

We are prepared to accept the final judicial verdict on the question of the title to the Babri Masjid site and disputed land. Even if the verdict goes against us.

As Muslims, we believe in the will of Allah. I do not think it is ordained for this great community of five million people to waste all their time and resources and pin our destiny on one question. We believe in abiding by the Constitution and the law. We shall await the final Supreme Court verdict.

But both the RSS and the VHP want to build a temple as soon as possible.

Both have been hell-bent on building a temple since 1983. If they are in such a hurry, why is it that the Babri Masjid question was not raised in the Hindu Mahasabha during the freedom movement? Why was this question not raised even after Independence? Even in 1949, the Jan Sangh never raised it. Suddenly, in 1983, the VHP starts this. Now, their energies are totally committed to it.

Ashok Singhal (president, VHP) said recently, perhaps in a moment of introspection, that they [the VHP] sowed the seeds and the BJP reaped the harvest.

The fact of the matter is that the Sangh Parivar has a system of orchestration. In a well-modulated orchestra, somebody speaks with a loud voice and someone with a soft voice. They have got complete understanding between each other. There is no difference between the BJP, RSS and VHP. They have a common strategy and have given each other a role. The ultimate objective is to achieve power.

Vajpayee's statement is meant to muster his forces, which are in retreat in Uttar Pradesh. It is like a clarion call that everything is not lost, so please come back and fight.

These tactics will not save the BJP. It may marginally increase their number of seats. But you cannot play the same card again and again. People are not fools.

What about the mosque being rebuilt?

In 1986, when the masjid was unlocked and made into a de facto temple, they said they wanted the Babri Masjid site, but would build us a much more resplendent mosque outside Ayodhya. Then, I asked them what would happen to 50 other masjids in Ayodhya and 50 other shrines and about 1,000 acres of graveyards.

Suppose the Supreme Court says the Babri Masjid belongs to the Muslims, then it is bound to allot the Babri Masjid site back to the Muslims for the construction of the masjid. Suppose the judgment goes against us, the Supreme Court is bound to provide for a masjid within the same campus. We are fighting on the basis of principle. Why should we unnecessarily build a masjid there to be a bone of contention? As far as building a masjid is concerned, it depends on the retrieval of the Babri Masjid site.

What has stopped a solution all these years?

It is a question of two irreconcilables. They are saying: 'Mandir wahin banayenge'. Muslims are not objecting to the construction of another Ram temple in Ayodhya. Muslims are not raising the question whether archaeologically speaking, Ayodhya can be considered Ram's city. We are only questioning the legality of destroying a 500-year-old monument in the name of religion.

Is the RSS-BJP-VHP trio communalising the issue?

The entire political panorama in India has been overshadowed in the last 10 years by the Babri Masjid issue. Ashok Singhal is right when he says that the Babri Masjid brought the BJP into power. The entire atmosphere has been communalised in India.

Even if you close your eyes, you will see a social upheaval going on in India. There are many at the bottom of society who are waking up and asking for their due. How do you silence them? The only way the RSS found is to raise the Hindu consciousness. They said Hindus were surrounded by enemies. It gave them a threat complex. They told them that there were dark clouds, it was not the time to ask for their share, as they should first save their country and dharma.

To me, the RSS represents a Brahminical order, which is now under threat. So they are appealing to the larger Hindu consciousness by depicting Muslims as the permanent enemy. Historic wrongs, Mughal conquests and destruction of temples were raked up. It was Hindu chauvinism coming to the fore not to save the Hindu masses, but to protect and preserve the old social structures.

The BJP in Uttar Pradesh seems quite elated with Vajpayee's statement on the Babri Masjid.

They should be. It is their last chance. The prime minister is their last hope. And this is the last card they can play.

How do you see the latest moves by Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Rajnath Singh?

Look at all the tricks Rajnath Singh is playing. He knows the Muslims are against the BJP. So he announces the recruitment of a large number of Urdu teachers. Also, financial aid to madrassas.

I know for a fact that he is encouraging the formation of exclusive Muslim parties. Suppose such parties come up and put up candidates, Muslim votes will go to them, depriving other parties. This will help the BJP.

They are raising the Babri Masjid question again to consolidate the Hindu vote. The BJP won and lost a number of seats in UP by a very small margin. Therefore, if it gets [an extra] 5 per cent of the votes, it hopes to win the battle.

Sometimes, they overplay their political cards without any consideration for the larger national interest and the democracy of which we are all proud.

Has the Muslim Personal Law Board taken any initiative on the Babri issue?

The working committee of the Muslim Personal Law Board decided in December 2000 that we will not talk to the VHP and the RSS. But we are prepared to talk to the government. We requested the government that if they had any ideas or solutions in mind, we would like to negotiate. But for the last eight months, we have been waiting for a response from the government. There has been no response.

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